We are using Baan IVc4 SP5 and are planning to upgrade to the latest SP. My question is: instead of upgrading to the latest SP in Baan IVc4 wouldn't it make sense to migrate to Baan LN. And also where can I find some decent information on LN which might also help me determining the correct way of action?

Richard Cardinaal

I grew up in Detroit, so I translate everything into Automotive terms..
to me here is what you just said:

"My 1975 Ford needs an oil change, wouldn't it be better just to trade it in and get that BMW i've been looking at?"

:)

Dave

sure....but that Ford also brings me from point A to B. Question is, would the investment - from a $ and learning point of view) - in that BMW be worth it or pimp my Ford a bit more also do the job. What are the big benefits moving to LN?

Depends on what you really need. Do you need oil in your car? or do you need side curtian airbags..

Relate this discussion to cost as well. Oil change $30. BMW ~$30,000

That's about the difference in cost between service pack and new implementation...

Dave

In case of the oil change you can then also move to SuSE Linux and will have a lot less annual maintenance costs on your BAAN system as well.

Regards,

Edwin

Would that make SuSE be a Honda then? =)

Dave

...Depends on what you really need. Do you need oil in your car? or do you need side curtian airbags...Dave

Dave

In 1975 the US auto industry was extemely profitable and built the vast majority of vehicles on US roads. It produced more vehicles than anywhere else on earth. It produced cars that guzzeled gas, poluted the atmosphere and were nowhere near as safe to travel in as today's cars.

Your analogy with cars and Baan seems very valid. Clearly, the old versions of Baan still work without much maintenance yet some new features (like frontal air-bags in your analogy) should be made available.

One of the problems is that SSA don't really want us to upgrade unless we buy more modules and/or professional services from them.

Terry

My question is: instead of upgrading to the latest SP in Baan IVc4 wouldn't it make sense to migrate to Baan LN.

A service pack upgrade is a technical upgrade, with no major functional changes. However SP5 to SP19 is a big jump that I'd advise to be done over a period of months. Implementing ERP LN is a very very large project, service pack is far far easier.
You will probably need to be on a later service pack than SP5 to use the migration tools to move to LN anyway.

And also where can I find some decent information on LN which might also help me determining the correct way of action?

http://onepoint.ssaglobal.com has some decent docs for the differences between Baan IV and ERP LN. That's the place I'd start.

Dave

In 1975 the US auto industry was extemely profitable and built the vast majority of vehicles on US roads. It produced more vehicles than anywhere else on earth. It produced cars that guzzeled gas, poluted the atmosphere and were nowhere near as safe to travel in as today's cars.

Your analogy with cars and Baan seems very valid. Clearly, the old versions of Baan still work without much maintenance yet some new features (like frontal air-bags in your analogy) should be made available.

One of the problems is that SSA don't really want us to upgrade unless we buy more modules and/or professional services from them.

Terry


I think if you continue the analogy that it holds in defense of SSA.

I can change the oil in my car, it will run and run and run, and I'll be happy with it.

However, I cannot install side curtian airbags for 2 reasons. First I don't know the first thing about how to attach them to the crumple zone, computer, etc. and Second, the car's entire infrastructure is different, there is no way to tell the onboard computer to pop the bags, there is no room in the door for the bags themselves and no way to make room.

Sure, I could get a friend who knows something about cars, get a saws-all and start chopping away, but once I was done, If i got in an accident, who would I call? Ford? Sure, they'll help for a price, but in the end the price would be more than the new car, because now i've mangled what was working beyond recognision.

So there is really only one place i can go to get those new features that I want. The vendor for a new car.


Outside of the fun analogy we've got going. Terry, I can migrate you to ERP LN for cheap. When does your fiscal year end? End that year in Baan 4, Start the new one in ERP LN. It's not that difficult to write an exchange scheme to bring over your Item data, suppliers and employees...
I accept paypal. ;)

Dave

Hi Guru's

Could you tell me what precautions (ex.backup etc) we should take while upgrading SP especially in case of customized work done in old SP.

Thanks

Outside of the fun analogy we've got going. Terry, I can migrate you to ERP LN for cheap. When does your fiscal year end? End that year in Baan 4, Start the new one in ERP LN. It's not that difficult to write an exchange scheme to bring over your Item data, suppliers and employees...
I accept paypal. ;)

Dave

I fully agree with Dave here and in fact know of a SSA BAAN partner who can do a template migration from BAAN IV to LN 6.1 so that you will be up and running with LN6.1 in less than 40 business days. Of course there may be a restriction due to the number of customizations in BAAN IV.
Moving to LN6.1 should not be regarded as an implementation but as a migration. Therefore it should not cost a company 8 months to move over.
Based on the fact that MySQL is coming out as a new database for LN6.1 supported by SSA Global in June 2006 the annual maintenance costs of the LN6.1 envornment will be so much less if you combine this also with SuSE Linux as the Operating System.
For sure, moving to a totally different ERP application will be much more expensive!

Regards,

Edwin

I think we have drifted off the solution track a little. Had Dave used GM instead of Ford (where there is/was a definite progression of peceived quality/luxury from Chev to Cadilac) and not confussed the issue with BMW (which I am not sure is better or worse than a Ford in the long run) then I think we could have agreed that owning Baan is probably analogous to owning an Oldsmobile or Buick (and keeping Dave's relatives in the midwest in jobs) and every couple of years we would trade-in and get a new car.

The most important issue that I see is that unless baan users move to LN6.1 then Baan is effectively in the last stages of slow death. We can keep the old version running for a while (and keep food on our own tables) but this is not a long term solution nor a prudent strategy for a healthy company.

My arguments are not whether Dave or Edwin can upgrade my site better than me or cheaper than SSA. My propositon is tha SSA do not want all users upgraded. Therefore they are not looking at a forever investment in Baan. (There is no evidence of any new development since Baan6/LN a couple of years back.)

The high support fees are very lucrative when little support is needed. What I see in my part of the world are "support" people doing pre-sales work. That is accounted for as support but in really sales are a sales-expense. Some now calling themselves consultants when the do this. They are not necessarily doing pre-sales of Baan / LN but of miriad of niche add-ons also.

So to answer the question put by Richard Cardinaal, I think he should without question upgrade/move/migrate to LN6.1. Whether SSA manage to get a professional service contract may depend on which region/country Richard is in and the availability of proven/experienced alternative consulting outfits .

Most of the SSA customers Baan-users which are running on Baan/Triton and interested in migrations to Ln have installed their ERP-environment years ago. Due to economical dip, only a few were able to update their processes related to the changes of the world we live in: doin' more with less FTE's. Since financial figures are overall increasig (slowly but steady) companies are looking for ways to optimize their business processes supported by ICT.
Upgrading software with SP's will not help you with new functionalities and therefore most of the times nothing more but technical projects. When proces redesign is required sometimes migrating to newer systems helps end-users to forget about their known current routines and be more open minded for changing and optimizing their way of working. In my opinion you should take these aspects in consideration also when you're thinking about Ln. It's perhaps doable to get Ln running in few weeks time, but make use of the opportunities to look at your business. Otherwise ICT is a goal in stead of a tool to support you making money.

(sorry for not being a techie and only interested in smoothly running businesses, of course supported by SSA's products:cool: )