Hi folks,

All those of us who are still hanging on to the wrecked ship( Baan), floating on jetsam and escaping the sea snakes and even the Tsunami's of asia, please provide your valuable comments about the mood in the New Year specifically Baan.

Are our hopes to be held high or have we to take a second look?.

Regards

Baanprog

And although that might be slightly exagerated, it certainly looks less grim then it has in the past couple of years.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

Francesco

I have to disagree with you. I think we now have a feel for SSA Global and it is clear that they are not about selling baan software to new sites which means that the baan product like all their other legacy software will just die a very slow death (forget ERP-LN it is not really new anyway).

Their stated policy to extract ever more revenue from existing customers. This may be by selling the customer what the customer had previously thought was to be a free upgrade or selling an additional module/package or selling additional licence seats or selling "Professional Services" for problem solving/support/domain expertise etc (refer baanportal announcement - SSA want all the professional services revenue for themselves.)

I think we will see a lot of people on baanboard finally more to other products this year where the market for their skills will be a lot more exciting and rewarding. Many of us have been living in hope of a baan "resurrection" since the start of the millenium but despite the excellence of the software, it is now clear that baan is now merely a high yielding support-revenue milch cow and not something to structure a career around.

Terry

"to extract ever more revenue for exiting(sic) customers" - prophetic

I have mixed emotions about your attitude re structuring a career around the Baan product - yeah, sure, if you had a child about to gratuate with honours in IT and (s)he asked you "hey dad, I got a job offer in Baan and another in SAP (peoplesoft, axapta, oracle etc) - which one should I choose?" it would be perfectly understandable if you beat the child around the face with a wet fish until (s)he figured it out.

BUT - SSA wanting all the PS revenue might be dis-heartening to readers who are independent contractors/freelancers. The fact that SSA want it doesn't mean they can *do* it. At the time of the acquisition it was their stated policy to outsource all consulting (prof. serv's) and in line with this they shed a lot of valuable human capital with the experience to consult/audit/support/manage an implementation. I don't really know, 'cos I'm out of the Baan world now, but I'd be very surprised if SSA in any given country can assemble more than one halfway-decent implementation team within timescales acceptable to customers - maybe in NL, they can, but where else?

Baan (the product) will never die, and the indies will always have work to do.

The problem with SSA Global is that they try to create a monopoly in a shrinking market.

They want to keep all the work for themselves and their selected partners or whatever is left of them.
Yet, SSA Global does not have the knowledge and skills to execute the work properly and so in the long run it is the customer who is going to get the short end.
This is becoming more true with the latest version of their partner contracts where they sqeeuze the partners more and more. Don't be surprised if 50% of the current partners will leave the Baan market during the course of this year.

I have always said that there is more knowledge outside of SSA Global than within. They spend lots of money and time to keep the true experts (non-official partners, freelancers and indepents) out and SSA is playing hard ball with these people in all corners of the world. Why?
Just to 'protect' their investment in Baan and their most recent attack on Baanportal is the latest example. I am sure more of these sad examples will follow.

This situation is not healthy and, unless SSA Global is able to really share the pie with the Baan "Outlaws", it is only a matter of time before they will get what they deserve.
One day the real 900 pound gorilla in the ERP space will fullfill this karmic obligation and drive the bookkeepers and asset strippers of SSA Global out of business. Then Mr. Greenough and his management of greed and fear will experience themselves how it feels to be punished for playing their game of unfair competition.

which is understandable, if they've ever done anything bad to you. I remember your original post about "there is more expertise outside of Baan" - that pre-dates the SSA days (unless you had inside knowledge?), so I guess it was either Baan Co or Invensys that upset you?

I am not a customer/partner/employee of SSA, but I remember having lots of fun with the product - as a non-Baaner, I can't see "their most recent attack on Baanportal" - can you post the text of it?

SSA has more ERP programs than just Baan. Most of them are hopelessly outdated. As I understand it, they have made Baan their summit and all migration paths lead to it.
This means that there will be thousands of new Baan environments in the near future, which will lead to a higher demand of Baan experience. An increase in Baan environments will affect Baan's mangled reputation in a positive way as well, which quite possibly could increase sales.

I agree with Arthas that it is impossible for SSA to completely control the market and there will always be room for entrepeneurial minds.

SSA's focus on exisiting customers might also be a sensible long-term policy. First get their existing base on 6.1 and then work on expansion. Who knows?

"to extract ever more revenue for exiting(sic) customers" - prophetic..I have mixed emotions about your attitude re structuring a career around the Baan product...
Arthas

I have now corrected the spelling in my post. Please don't get to emotional over my words. I am just taking the opportunity to express my thoughts. I agree that (we) the non-SSA world doesn't necessarily have fall into line with what SSA want but I do think it would be a much nicer world if SSA were to ennourish their customers a little while "milking" them.

I also agree that with their internal resources, SSA would probably not be able to come up with competent implementation/technical teams in most locations. However, I see this as part of their fundamental strategy of milking existing customers who have old but stable software. SSA do not need high calibre people unless there is new software being implemented and consequently supported. In their formula: Old versions equate with zero cost support.

As to LN, I think they are determined to not install it anywhere unless they can get extortionate professional services. I think they need to keep everyone else out of this area to avoid comparison with competent external people, particularly where the external people may have specific domain knowledge.


The problem with SSA Global...Don't be surprised if 50% of the current partners will leave the Baan market during the course of this year...it is only a matter of time before they [SSA] will get what they deserve...Then Mr. Greenough and his management of greed and fear will experience themselves how it feels to be punished for playing their game of unfair competition.

baanassist

I recently had a "partner" contact me offline because of the anti-SSA line I was taking. He said he could assure me that SSA is not like I was saying because he had recently been to a conference for "partners" and he knew they just wouldn't act that way. I corresponded with him a couple of times using SSA'a own words to prove my point of view. He was obviously new to the SSA world and will probably have found out for himself by now.

As to the inevitabilty of SSA and Mr Greenough’s fate. I think the screws are already being tightened on the company and top-management team of one. The real pity is that it is the Baan software, its proponents (us) and its customers who are each the victims for the sake of a the the few coins needed to service the investment. If SSA had to get a return on the potential worth of the software in the hands of a competent management (say several billion USD rather than $130 million) then we would see an entirely different management approach and management crew.

It may be of some comfort to Mr Geenough that he is not the only one discomforted.

Terry

SSA has more ERP programs than just Baan. Most of them are hopelessly outdated. As I understand it, they have made Baan their summit and all migration paths lead to it....SSA's focus on exisiting customers might also be a sensible long-term policy. First get their existing base on 6.1 and then work on expansion. Who knows?

Francesco

I think they do have a lot of outdated programs-- they seem to buy anything that has good support revenue. They have two streams of products. The AS400 products including their original BPCS and its look alike PRMS (both products had common beginnings -- some of the same developers) and the predominantly UNIX products like Baan and its reincarnations ManMan/x and MK.

I don't think they intend to merge the AS400 stream with the Baan stream even though Baan will run on AS400. I think the AS400 products will be attractive to them because there is a lot more money spent in those shops (machines of similar processing capacity cost lots and lots more). Fuurthermore there is an enormous number of BPCS installations around the world who are generally happy with the product which will do some things that Baan won't do -- even LN6.1.

Although it may make sense to some people to get to a common software product at a current version, that is not what SSA are about. As for there always being room for others, that is of course true for "vanilla" sites and/or those where there is access to source code. Where neither of these apply then SSA are in real trouble because those external people, many of whom will have a lot of influence with the SSA customer, will recommend an upgrade to a "state-of-the-art" product (all SSA products can be relegated to "leagacy" class by a competitor.)

Terry

Hi folks,

All those of us who are still hanging on to the wrecked ship( Baan), floating on jetsam and escaping the sea snakes and even the Tsunami's of asia, please provide your valuable comments about the mood in the New Year specifically Baan.

Are our hopes to be held high or have we to take a second look?.

Regards

Baanprog

:D Hanging on one ship is not suggested. Changing ship depends. Today there are not much safe ships in the sea of ERP. 'P' ship has just sinked. If we can jump to the 'S' ship or 'O' ship, then jump. But they are crowded already. My new year hope is to find the land. If one day the Tsunami is over, I still prefer to sail with the wrecked 'B' ship .