I have just picked up an alarming post on a BAAN discussion forum of one of our colleagues.
The discussion is about the news that BWU in North America is dissolving itself (http://baan.ittoolbox.com/groups/groups.asp?v=baan-erp-l&i=596479).

The fact that BWU was having money issues and that SSA is pumping funds in there to keep them alive, have been a public secret.
Also the fact that only 11% of all Baan customers in North America are a member of the BWU organization and this percentage is only going down.

I guess SSA Global is using the opportunity to attract all Baan customers to visit their SSA Global Client Forum in Atlanta, GA in May 2005.
SSA Global never had an independent user group and so now they are able to get rid of the BWU organization in North America.

The situation in North America is bad for the solution partners who depend on the BWU web site and meetings to get in touch with Baan customers. Many partners have invested a lot of money in Baan Company in the past. Therefore the new initiative for Baanportal.com is good as this will allow solution partners and Baan customers to keep in close contact with each other.

Regards,

Edwin

I am posting the two answers from the IT toolbox discussion here because of the importance of the subject and since this is the main Baan meeting place...

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Posted By David Dickson On Monday, November 22, 2004 at 2:31 PM

Edwin, et al,

As a BWU Board member, I think I can clarify a few things.

Yes, BWU is planning to cease operations at the end of the current membership year, June 30. This is subject to a vote of the membership, so if the members wish to continue with BWU, they certainly can.

No, BWU is not losing lots of money. We could continue to operate for a long
time, though without SSA involvement, our value to our members would be much less. We have been shrinking somewhat over the last few years, mostly because of a decline in the number and spending of solution partners. But we have dealt with that, and the decline seems to be slowing.

Yes, SSA wants to have one user group for all their software. The users/installed base is more strategic to SSA than it was to Baan or Invensys, who were more focused on new business. So the user group(s) are also more strategic. But it would be difficult for SSA to be heavily involved in 10 or 12 North American User Groups, so their interest is in putting a lot of energy into one group.

No, SSA did not tell us what to do, but the Board of BWU, and the other two user groups starting SSA Global Users - North America (SSAU), thought it made sense to become part of a single, larger user group. There are many reasons for this, and if you are interested I suggest you get a copy of the most recent, and last previous BWU e-newsletters which go into why we think this is the right decision. BWU members get this automatically sent to as
many contacts as they request.

SSA, by the way, did a very good job in Montreal. Lots of people, good information, and almost constant availability of demo systems to look at every piece of software they offer. Mostly informational, and just plain good.

Lastly, neither BWU nor SSAU are turning their backs on solution partners. I expect SSAU to offer opportunities to Solution Partners that are comparable to what BWU offered. There is certainly a decline in the total number of Solution Partners in the Baan and SSA space, but that decline has been going on for almost 5 years, due to a variety of challenges.

Having said all that, I do think Baanportal is an interesting idea that could provide real value to vendors and users alike. But if its value needs to depend on the disappearance of a strong, user-focused, and independent user group, then it will have problems, because that is not happening any time soon.

I invite you all to join SSAU and be active participants in the user group. Members will define the group and its direction, and these are critical times. The new web site will be up by December 1, though a final decision on the URL is still pending. Stay tuned, and stay active.

Regards,
David Dickson


Posted By Mike Taylor On Monday, November 22, 2004 at 2:31 PM

As most of the Baan Software Users know SSA Global purchased Baan from Invensys in 2003.

SSA Global, over the last several years in an effort to expand it's footprint of extended enterprise solutions, have purchased several under performing software companies.

The majority of these companies SSA purchased had good solutions and loyal customers but had some previous management and execution issues which lead them to under perform. SSA saw the value of these solutions and that is why these companies were acquired. Though SSA's management and execution, all of these companies have been successfully merged into SSA Global operations.

Most of these solutions had established users groups. As a result of these acquisitions, several companies now own multiple SSA solutions and belonged to several different users groups.

SSA understands the value of the users groups and has continued to support the groups conferences and meetings. Several of these users groups had a combined event this spring in Chicago. The event was very successful, so there were several meetings with all the different users groups and SSA Global to discuss forming one unified North American Users Group.

An Executive Steering Committee was formed. The participants of this committee were from nine different users groups and didn't include any SSA employees. SSA Global Participated to give feedback.

The (ESC) then invited the different members of these users groups to participate in one of six sub-committees to assist in the formation of the North American Users Group of SSA Global solutions. The six sub-committees were Governance, Finance, Membership, Communications, Conference and Membership Benefits. Over 100 people have been volunteering their time over the last several months in this effort. This group will start operations in January of 2005. The group has decided to hold it's first conference in Atlanta in May. The new group will have members and associate "Partner" members so the members will still have access to the partners they have been working with. SSA has stated they will participate in this meeting. This doesn't replace SSA's Fall Client Forum! Each user community should be represented with the same amount of content as they had with their individual users conferences.

Each of the existing users groups have discussed this within their groups membership. Each group made a choice to either continue their users group or ending their groups operations and joining the new North American Users Group.

BWU board and it's members voted and made the decision to end its operations at the end of this membership year which is June 30, 2005. They recommended the BWU users join the new North American Users Group. The new group has offered BWU members the normal members discount for the event in May even if they haven't joined the new group yet.

BWU is a not for profit organization and isn't heavily losing money! BWU was recognized by the six committees of the new group as to one of the better run user organizations.

SSA doesn't fill the financial gaps of any of these user groups. It participates by sending resources to the different events and this effort to combine the user group allows SSA to send more resources to one event then a few to several events.

Bader,

Thanks for the update. I agree this information can be very useful for BAAN customers in North America.

Regards,

Edwin

Refer: http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php?id=1253544502&eid=-6787

"...After a combative 18 months under PeopleSoft, Australian JD Edwards (JDE) user groups are now forming the front-line of Oracle's battle to win the hearts, minds and revenues of its newly acquired ERP customer base.

While the rest of PeopleSoft's customers will have to wait until early Wednesday to learn of their fate under Larry Ellison, representatives of Australian JD Edwards' user groups are today receiving a "special advance briefing" assuring them their vendor-independent autonomy will not be challenged under Oracle's control..."

It seems that Oracle are pleased to be able to use JDE user groups as a communication avenue rather than force them to close down as SSA has.

Terry

Check the following update about the new SSA Global user group (Which will include the Baan User Group as well).

http://www.rmcis.com/BWUUpdate.html#Introducing


The web site for the new SSA Global User Group is http://www.ssaglobalusers.org/

They plan to have the first conference in Atlanta, May 15-17, 2005.

Bader

It is interesting to see the differrent attitudes toward user groups by members and SSA and by oracle in my post.

I personally do not get very excited over user groups. They are useful when people are new to a product as a means of networking and sharing experience. I have never seen them as a vehicle for influencing the Vendor. Having said that I do not think SSA were entitled to effecively close-down the North American groups. Furthermore it is ridiculous having a user group that cover all the products. (Ridiculous from the point of view of the one paying the airfares and attendence expenses of the delegates)

SSA are not consistent. In Australia they announced at a recent Baan user group meeting that they wanted to keep the Baan, Manman/x and MK groups separate. That didn't make any sense to me except that, I was in the audience and the SSA general manager had been briefed on my comments on this and other forums. I think he was seeking to avoid a public debate with me. If you are going to have a user group then it does make sense to group the similar products together.

In the case of the Baan product this site is the most useful device possible.

In the case of IBM I think there is some value to be had with Share/Guide/Common organisations because of IBMs size and its rate of product innovations. Here with SSA, we are talking about a product whose total investment cost was a mere $US130 million.

Terry

Terry,

In Europe the BWU country organizations will remain and BAAN customers will have the ability to also join the SSA Global Users Group.

I guess the only consistency here is that Baanboard remains the premier discussion forum on the internet for BAAN users.
None of the BWU discussion forums have ever been successful and I am convinced a possible discussion forum at http://www.ssaglobalusers.org/ will also not be able to compete with Baanboard.
Instead of reinventing the wheel again it would be great if the SSA Global Users Group can work together with Baanboard for sharing the discussion forums.

Let's hope Baanboard is not going to be regarded as a competitor this time around.

Regards,

Edwin

Sorry for the late input to this conversation, we've been pretty busy on the startup of this new organization and the organizing of our first conference. David did a great job explaining where SSAU, BWU and other user groups were in November, I thought I would update the thread with the latest activities.

A little history of how this all came about:

In late 2003, there was a desire from SSA Global and six other North American user group communities to have a co-located event, not unlike the co-located events currently found in the United Kingdom, Australia and elsewhere. That very successful event was held in the Spring of 2004 in Chicago, with nearly 800 attendees. BWU did not participate in the co-located event, as Baan had only recently been acquired by SSA Global, and BWU was already financially committed to their Fall event in Montreal.

Around the time of the Spring event, there were the beginnings of discussions to take consolidation further, and form a new North American user group that could serve the users of virtually all of SSA Global's products. This discussion was in line with the strategic plans of some of the user groups. (As the SSA Global product lines converge and evolve, it made sense to have a user group community that could adjust and evolve with it.) Thus began the early plannings of what ultimately became SSA Global Users - North America (SSAU).

Mike Taylor's description of how SSAU was formed is fairly accurate. There has been heavy participation from various user communities, particularly in the planning of the annual educational conference. As with message boards like BaanBoard, user participation makes or breaks a user group. We've been fortunate to have great support from the different groups.

SSAU has four main core values:

ADVOCACY - To be the voice of our users to SSA Global by working collaboratively to bring solutions that provides benefits and value to the user community and aligns our vision with the product evolution.

EDUCATION - To increase the knowledge of the SSA Global product solutions in our member base through a variety of venues from newsletters to an annual user conference.

INFLUENCE - To partner with SSA Global by providing input to the product development team to create the optimal business solutions to the customer base. The product enhancement process, Voice to SSA Global, will compliment this input.

NETWORKING - To create opportunities for the user community to share experiences and knowledge to further increase their understanding of the SSA Global applications.

As to Terry's statement on never seeing a user community as a vehicle for influencing vendors, I have to respectfully disagree. I've seen enhancement voting processes affect functionality, and have been part of it with my prior involvement in the Infinium UserNet user group. SSAU has tried to build upon the benefits of enhancement voting by negotiating a partnership agreement with SSA Global that includes the ability to have direct and regular access to product managers, along with additional access to product direction. SSAU also gets regular access to senior executives at SSA Global. This will only serve to enhance SSAU's ability to INFLUENCE product direction.

SSAU is still young, and is continuing to develop programs to support our core values. This is a very important time to have participation and input from advocates like those on this message board. SSAU has a good start, with it's membership ranks quickly growing, and with an even larger annual event coming in May. I very much encourage North American users, plus any other international users that have interest, to keep up-to-date with SSAU's activities, by visiting our website at http://www.ssaglobalusers.org. The site is still growing, with more information and functionality soon to come. Information about our first annual conference is also on the site.

I very much encourange any inquiries, please feel free to e-mail SSAU at info@ssaglobalusers.org, or e-mail me directly from this board.

Brian Johnson, Interim Chair
SSA Global Users - North America

Brian,

Why doesn't SSAU grab the opportunity and work closely together with BaanBoard?
In the end we are all trying to achieve the same goals.
Our board is still growing every day with now more than 7,000 members and we have become an important player in the international BAAN user community.
We are looking forward to any form of relationship with SSAU and you can mail me at edwin@baanboard.com if you are interested to pick up the ball.

Good luck with your initiative.

Regards,

Edwin

...As to Terry's statement on never seeing a user community as a vehicle for influencing vendors, I have to respectfully disagree. I've seen enhancement voting processes affect functionality, and have been part of it with my prior involvement in the Infinium UserNet user group. SSAU has tried to build upon the benefits of enhancement voting by negotiating a partnership agreement with SSA Global that includes the ability to have direct and regular access to product managers, along with additional access to product direction. SSAU also gets regular access to senior executives at SSA Global. This will only serve to enhance SSAU's ability to INFLUENCE product direction. I
Brian

I wish your group well and I have already registered for your discussion group. By and large I accept your views but there are a couple of areas where I do have a somewhat different view, this may well be because I am in a very small market where the weight of our combined opinion is almost miniscule compared to that of USA users. I am also convinced that SSA behave differently in US than the do in this region.

One point that you made in the text I have quoted above regarding "enhancement voting" may well be valid but please bear in mind that about 80% of SSA-Baan ERP customers very contentedly run a version of the software that was deliverd in early 1999. Many of those have not even applied correction patches to the software let alone upgraded to newer versions. Furthermore, of the many thousands of customers using Baan ERP around the world only about 150 have or are in the process of upgrading to the newest version that was released 9 months ago and does appear to have some nice features.

The point you make about access to senior executives may be useful but I think any large customer or prospect would not have any problem getting their attention. I think for example of users like Boeing who it seems are able to influence SSA/Baan very easily.

There is one point that I think works both for and against your organisation. That is that you are attempting to cover the whole gambut of SSA's now vast product portfolio. Some of the products like Baan/MK/BPCS/PRMS are very comprehensive and large and some of those such as Baan have very large customers (Boeing) with many thousands of licence seats, but some other products are quite small and so are some of their customers who have only a couple of user seats. I can't see what use it would be for a small customer to vote for anything if the likes of Boeing were also voting and had a different view. Unless of course the customer was able to become involved in the running of the user group and effectively get personal access to the movers and shakers in SSA.

As to SSA behaving differently in different parts of the world, I offer as an simple example the case of the Australian/NZ Baan Users group where the head of SSA in Australia went out of his way to keep this group separate from MK user and BPCS PRMS user groups. I thought there would be a lot of benefit in a combined ERP group especially in this small market. I suspect the reason for this was to (temporarily) avoid comparision of commercial and licence arrangements.

Terry

Brian,

It is clear that the discussion group at the SSAU site is more geared towards the possibility by customers to influence SSA BAAN when it comes to enhancing the functionality of the SSA BAAN software.
This is something BaanBoard can never do and it is also not our objective.
The value that BaanBoard brings to the table is at the operational level.
As long as we (BaanBoard and SSAU) perceive the same view here then there is a way to work together. We complement each other rather than compete.
SSAU is there for IT Managers and BaanBoard for the functional and technical users in BAAN.

My advise to SSAU is not to get caught in the same trap the BWU organizations around the world got into. They all tried to set up a user forum of their own where BAAN users could post their operational issues but none of these forums have ever been successful. Re-inventing the wheel by SSAU will also not work.
That is why I mentioned before there is only one consistency when it comes to a global user forum and that is BaanBoard.

The BaanBoard Team is open to discuss any kind of collaboration with SSAU.

Regards,

Edwin
edwin@baanboard.com